General Pokemon Thread



  • ^ You seem to be mad about stuff that happened in another thread. Just let this one be.



  • @oscillator I responded to things happening in this topic directly related to a previous related topic. I responded to a conversation that's already been had being forced to happen all over again, so that's all people are funneled to focus on for the new game. Don't try to u mad xD dismiss me either. We just went through years of the developer being harassed at every turn, because of the exact kind of behavior in this topic misinforming people and riling up a mob against them.

    Fuck harassment campaigns. Fuck console wars. If that's what someone is using these forums to engage in, I have no qualms pointing that out. I will not "just like this one be".


  • Banned

    @mbun If you can't defend your side of the argument, you could just say so instead of trying to attack my character, throwing out a dozen or so logical fallacies and going on a highly hypocritical rant.



  • @mbun said in General Pokemon Thread:

    Fuck harassment campaigns. Fuck console wars.

    All I know is that I'm not doing either of those. I'm trying to make logical points.


  • Banned

    If a company does something wrong or releases a poor product, are we not allowed to criticize that?
    Halo Infinite looked like trash. People pointed it out. 343 fixed it. Is it honestly too much to hope that Nintendo/GameFreak might do the same with their games, or are we just relegated to believing that this series will never surpass this mediocrity?

    Arguing that "the majority of consumers are used to getting fleeced" is really dumb and the reason these companies continue to push out low effort, low quality schlock like this. They know they have a rabid fanbase that will blindly defend any and all criticism, even if it is completely valid.



  • @mbun said in General Pokemon Thread:

    but it is always the least qualified people to discuss the topic parroting the same misinformed statements while passing around the same specific images created solely to attack the game.

    Honestly, I feel like saying someone like myself is unqualified to discuss Pokemon is like saying your 10 year old neighbour shouldn't have opinions on Star Wars since she wasn't around in the 80s. Pokemon is pop culture. Pokemon quite literally brings me some of the most joyous warmth of my childhood in the same way eating my grandmothers home cooking can make me nostalgic for the past.

    I haven't ravenously consumed every Pokemon game in eons because I stopped liking them (art direction as a major reason for that). But I don't accept that I'm unqualified to talk about these things because I'm not a) a Pokemon fanatic anymore, or b) a child.

    My criticisms and expectations for Pokemon are quite literally drawn from base level market competition for a AAA publisher and IP.

    I've never been malicious and even originally stated that I appreciate the adventure/exploration direction of Pokemon Legends. To me, art direction is massively important and I think it's reasonable for me to expect a bit more.



  • @dipset Wasn't referring to you. All you did was grab two parts of the trailer and show exactly how some shots look way better than others.

    @Oscillator Wasn't referring to you either. I thought my previous post would've made it crystal clear exactly who I was referring to.



  • @mbun said in General Pokemon Thread:

    @dipset Wasn't referring to you. All you did was grab two parts of the trailer and show exactly how some shots look way better than others.

    @Oscillator Wasn't referring to you either. I thought my previous post would've made it crystal clear exactly who I was referring to.

    You expressed general disdain for the ongoing criticism of Game Freak/the direction of the mainline Pokemon games.



  • @oscillator I said fair criticism is fine. People riling up a mob to harass GameFreak and accusing developers of being lazy, something you rebuked earlier, is the shit we don't need in these forums.


  • Banned

    Literally who is tiling up a mob? That is a hilarious exaggeration if there ever was one, but then again you think I have sock accounts on this forums so clearly your paranoia is reaching uncomfortable levels.

    Is it really so unfathomable that they just might actually be lazy because, as I have already said and you made abundantly clear, the fans will still buy it regardless of quality and defend any and all criticisms with almost religious zeal?



  • @el-shmiablo If someone is "lazy" then being game developer is lasting they want to do, there is lot of factor about why GameFreak wont go all out with Pokémon series but being "lazy" is not one of them.

    In my opinion "lazy" is poor argument.



  • @el-shmiablo Laziness is a false concept to me. People who are blamed for being lazy probably don't have the incentive to do more productive things. You need reward in order to work harder.





  • @el-shmiablo said in General Pokemon Thread:

    Literally who is tiling up a mob? That is a hilarious exaggeration if there ever was one, but then again you think I have sock accounts on this forums so clearly your paranoia is reaching uncomfortable levels.

    Is it really so unfathomable that they just might actually be lazy because, as I have already said and you made abundantly clear, the fans will still buy it regardless of quality and defend any and all criticisms with almost religious zeal?

    I replied to @Mbun in as chill a demeanor I could muster to try and cool the situation...then you go and light it up again. -_-

    There are many words better used ahead of "lazy" -- inexperienced, stuck in a rut, inflexible, narrow-minded, oblivious, surrounded by yes men/gushing fans, surrounded by people who see problems but don't want to/are afraid to/are somehow prevented from butting in; and so on.

    I personally think it's a combination of the first two options, with the bulk of the weight on inexperience, plus a bit of TPC/Nintendo not wanting to butt in for a variety of reasons.


  • Banned

    @oscillator Sorry but I just can't think of any other way that a game by a studio with as much success as Nintendo/GaneFreak has seen could produce a game that ends up looking like this.

    0_1629970160336_gameplay-battle-10-1629297092572_dp74.jpg
    (oh look I even used a different screenshot!)

    Inexperienced with the hardware? It's been almost 5 years since it released, and other devs have been able to achieve monumentally better results on the same hardware, or even on hardware that is almost 2 decades old.
    Why have they been unable to train their employees properly to use the hardware they will be developing for? Are they unable to hire people who are familiar with the hardware? Are they unable to ask other developers within their circle how to better utilize it?

    So instead of "lazy", should I use complacent? Unwilling?



  • @el-shmiablo said in General Pokemon Thread:

    So instead of "lazy", should I use complacent? Unwilling?

    The words I suggested - inexperienced + stuck in a rut.

    Game Freak (Nintendo has no role in mainline Pokemon development aside from testing) got into 3D visuals long after the vast majority of other developers who handle AAA franchises. And when they did, it was still on handheld hardware - what they had always worked with, just more powerful. So they kept making games in the top-down grid-based style they always had, just with 3D visuals -- ones that didn't have to be astounding.

    Then finally Switch came - a handheld with the power and usability of a console. And one of the most popular games on it was a legit AAA open-world adventure. I posit that Sword & Shield (and now Legends) was both what they had to do, and all they could do, being the sole developers (at least in terms of project management).

    There's a difference between lazy and not good enough.


  • Banned

    @oscillator So then like I said, why not train your employees to be better? There are mountains of resources available for free online on how to utilize these things.
    Failing that, why not hire employees who are familiar with the hardware, or open world games? This isn't a small studio we're talking about.
    Outsourcing?
    Reaching out to other developers?

    The excuses are just that, excuses. There is no reason that the game should look this bad compared to it's contemporaries. Hell, there is no reason this game should look this bad compared to games released 15 years ago.



  • @el-shmiablo said in General Pokemon Thread:

    why not train your employees to be better?

    why not play a completely different game instead of crying about a kids game for 2 pages straight?



  • @el-shmiablo

    As someone who works in media production, the plug-n-play of hiring "experienced" employees is never that simple. I find almost always it's the Senior artists that cause the most problems despite having the most experience. We are doing a project right now that is meant to be simple and in the act of using simple software, it's causing all sorts of issues for those who have a ton of experience with more advanced software.

    All this to say is that it's never easy to do anything (simple, ambitious, or even unambitious) within the context of tight deadlines or limited budgets.

    ALL THAT SAID—I absolutely think GameFreak needs to press the pause button for a hot moment and catch up to the times. I know business never stops but it's not like people need mainline Pokemon releases as quickly as we get them. An internal testing phase would do them wonders on the good-will side of things and if they really made a Pokemon game on the level of their JRPG peers, I'd consider diving back in. At the very least, they need to suffer through these extremely late HD-era growing pains. Cause they are going to look horrifically dated in 2-3 years when the Switch is replaced with something new.



  • @el-shmiablo said in General Pokemon Thread:

    If a company does something wrong or releases a poor product, are we not allowed to criticize that?
    Halo Infinite looked like trash. People pointed it out. 343 fixed it. Is it honestly too much to hope that Nintendo/GameFreak might do the same with their games, or are we just relegated to believing that this series will never surpass this mediocrity?

    Arguing that "the majority of consumers are used to getting fleeced" is really dumb and the reason these companies continue to push out low effort, low quality schlock like this. They know they have a rabid fanbase that will blindly defend any and all criticism, even if it is completely valid.

    I think it might be the repetition that people have the most issue with. I don't personally play Pokemon and therefore I don't usually enter the specific threads. That said, even I am well aware of your specific critisism against the franchise as a whole; I've just seen it that many times.

    I'm not even going to argue if you're right or wrong here, just that this forum is pretty small and its reach is pretty much non-existent. I don't see much point in regurgitating the same criticism to the exact same people over and over again.