The EZA Forum Hall of Greats (May 2022)



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    Hello Allies!

    It is time once again for the EZA Forum Hall of Greats. For those unaware, this is our version of the classic EZA stream in which participants bring a single game forward that they think is worthy of being entered into the Hall of Greats. After cross-examination, we vote and see which two games are entered. Here are the rules:

    Bringing Games

    1. You have until the end of May 9th to DM me and tell me what game you are planning on bringing. After the deadline I will not accept new submissions.
    2. These have to be video games.
    3. You may not bring a game that has been banned, however there are currently no bans so you can ignore this rule for now.

    Presentations

    1. On May 10th I will allow presentations in the thread. This period will last another week, with the 16th being the last day.
    2. Presentations may be either a text post of no more than 1000 words, or a video no longer than 5 minutes.
    3. Text posts will be allowed 3 pictures and 2 videos of up to 10 minutes. These videos are purely to enhance the text post, and can be only music or gameplay without commentary. This is optional.
    4. If you opt to do a 5 minute video, there are no restrictions on content so long as it remains within the time-limit.
    5. It’s important that we keep conversation to a minimum at this time so as to not crowd the thread. Conversation is for the next phase, Cross-Examination.

    Cross-Examination

    1. On May 17th the cross-examination period will begin. This will last another week, with the last day being the 23rd.
    2. In cross-examination, each person is allowed to ask up to two questions per game presented.
    3. If a question is asked about a certain game, only the person who brought that game is allowed to respond.
    4. Anybody is able to cross-examine, even those who did not present a game themselves. This is to encourage participation, and potentially get those who did not participate interested in doing so next time.

    Voting

    1. After cross-examination is done, participants will be asked to vote on which games were their favorite.
    2. Only those who brought a game are able to vote.
    3. Votes will be sent to me through DM, and you will be able to vote on your first, second, and third favorites.
    4. Your first pick gets three points, your second gets two, and your third gets one.
    5. After I have received all of the votes, I will tally them up and reveal which two games are entered into the Forum HoG.
    6. You may not vote for your own game.
    7. If a game gets no votes, it will be banned for a year. This means that you cannot bring it to the HoG again until the time is up.
    8. In the event of a tie, I will look back at the votes to determine if everybody voted for at least one of the games in question, and if not I will privately message those who need to in order to determine a winner.

    I think we've found our rhythm at this point but there is always the possibility that an unanticipated hiccup will arise, so if that happens we will talk about it together to determine how to proceed, and decide if any rule changes need to occur. Also, realistically it’s difficult for these rules to be enforced, so I ask that you just try to follow them as well as you can. If your video is a few seconds over or something like that, no sweat, just try your best. If you choose to go way under 5 minutes or 1000 words, that’s cool too. They’re a limit, not a requirement.

    Well, I think I’ve covered everything. Don’t forget to tell me what game you are bringing by the end of May 9th, hopefully we get a fair amount of submissions. Here is the most recent HoG if you would like to see how it all turned out. If you have any questions let me know, and if not then I’ll see you next week. Enjoy!

    (Edit) Here is a compilation of every presentation and cross-examination question/response:

    Halo: Combat Evolved

    Dragon Age: Inquisition

    Uncharted 4: A Thief’s End

    Mass Effect Legendary Edition

    Madden 07

    The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt

    Batman: Arkham Asylum



  • I'm in. Expect another excellent game that doesn't come to mind immediately when you think about Greats.



  • I can't wait. Again, not expecting my nomination to get any votes, but I'm super excited to see what everyone else brings/argues for.



  • I thought I had mine prepared but I'm thinking of submitting a more daring entry. And no this time it's not a Rockstar game.



  • Hey folks, so we have a bit of an interesting situation here that I would like your opinion on. Somebody has asked to bring a game compilation, a remastered collection of a game series. What are our thoughts on that? I personally would argue that a collection doesn't count as it is more than one game, however I will happily allow it if you all feel differently.



  • I say allow it.

    This type of event is more fun if we actually enjoy putting the time in to do the presentation. So I'm all for whatever motivates people.



  • @capnbobamous I think that collections should not be eligible, because this is a collection of different products, not a one product (for example, Mass Effect Legendary Edition is recognised as a trilogy, not as one giant game). Also this opens a can of worms for arguments like "yeah, this entry is bad, but you can skip it and play only good ones, so it doesn't count".

    Also, if we allow collections, next time I will nominate Xbox Game Pass.



  • I'm with @ffff0 on this one: Collections are multiple games, so who's to say it's a nomination of escalations of say, Kingdom Hearts 1.5 + 2.5 HD Remix going against Halo: The Master Chief Collection and so on?



  • I feel like I'm outnumbered on this one, but I really don't think we need to be so granular. Like, I could easily see somebody nominating Halo MCC as a package and analyzing it as one package as opposed to each individual game. Cause in that specific example, it is probably one of the greatest gaming packages out there.

    It was and still is supported as one game by the developers since 2014. You experience all of the games as one whole because you can jump between the games in one multiplayer playlist. Experience across all of the games is credited to one profile progression. Medals are universal. The engine was redone in UE4 so it's a borderline remake.

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that we're cutting out entirely unique gaming experiences that are a high quality standout in the market (such as MCC), because of a semantic that it isn't a traditional game product. Same could go for Sonic Mania or something of that nature too.

    I know, that example is granular in itself, but I figure we should just have some fun with it and roll with the punches.



  • I vote to allow it.

    We should let participants make the case for it as part of their presentation. If they don't have a good reason for bringing a compilation of games, then they won't get any votes.



  • @dipset In response to your Sonic Mania argument, I don't think we would be having this same discussion if Sonic Mania were the game because that is inarguably one game. Sure, it features remixes of past levels, but it is all contained within a single game package, coupled with a bunch of new stuff. Hell, I'd even say Sonic Generations counts, because despite the fact that it's almost entirely remixed content, it is a new title. It doesn't contain the entirety of other games verbatim, as opposed to MCC, which does.

    Something like the Master Chief Collection is just that, a collection. You have to literally choose which game you want to play. It is developed as a single product, but it contains like six games released over fifteen years, in their entirety. It doesn't seem particularly fair to me to be able to get nearly every single Halo game in at once just because they are part of a collection. They were individual games developed as individual games that just happened to be part of a collection later on.

    But hey, these are just my two cents. I don't feel particularly strongly about it, but I figured I'd give my opinion. Also I think it's important to mention that MCC is just a theoretical example, and wasn't the collection that was brought.



  • @dipset @Shoulderguy My argument against letting people bringing whatever they want and deciding by whether they made a good case for it or not is that we have "These have to be video games" rule, which bans tabletop games and such. We have this rule not because we don't think that, say, Dungeons & Dragons is inherently bad, but because it's impossible to properly compare it to, say, Skyrim. This ensures that this Hall of Great will not become a popularity contest or "who is a better speaker" contest. Of course, a collection of games is much less different than tabletop games, but still, it will raise questions like how to compare one story to multiple stories.

    Additionally, I think limitations bring focus and push you to highlight what's really important. This is tougher, sure, but it yields much better result.



  • The EZA HoG has never had a collection nominated, but not because there is a rule against it. I suspect it's an unspoken understanding that HoG is meant to showcase singular, compact visions, and not "how much value can we cram into this package" scenarios.

    Also, nominating a collection is generally a disadvantage, as they're rarely as highly regarded as their parts. I'm pretty sure The Orange Box is the only time a collection has achieved that same level of reverence. EDIT: And if it is The Orange Box that has been brought, I think that can be DQd simply because it contains games that are not connected to each other, besides having the same developer, effectively having multiple nominations.

    EDIT 2: I see remixes that significantly alter the in-game content, such as Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1+2, as fair game though.



  • Also worth noting that I think has been danced around a little bit but not outright stated: Because we have presentation limitations of word count/video length/etc., you can't spend all of your presentation on one portion of the collection like you can when bringing a single game.

    Let's keep the MCC example; Do you try to put equal time in all seven games to ensure everything gets praise? What do you focus on when factoring in you have six other games to talk about? Or do you try to argue off the first things to come to mind, but find you've put more weight into say, half the collection than the other half? These are just some questions I would consider if someone were to bring a collection.



  • Okay folks, let's talk compromises. After speaking with the person in question, and in an effort to make it fair to everybody, what do you all say to this: we will allow a collection this one time, and afterwards we will instate a rule forbidding collections. If you don't agree with collections, hey you don't have to vote for it, but in all likelihood the person bringing it has already been planning a presentation and this seems like the fairest way to go about it. It was not a rule before this HOG started, so it's not like they were trying to actively break any rules. I say let them go for it, just this once.



  • @capnbobamous Personally speaking, that's fair, especially with your reasoning, but to be completely transparent, a collection by its nature has so much more to juggle (which it will have its chance in both presentation and cross-examination).

    To the person who is nominating it, I wish you good luck.



  • Yeah, a collection gives more fodder for being picked apart, so it's kind of a brave choice.



  • @capnbobamous That's a very good point. Let's allow it this time and state the rule for the future.



  • Yes like the collection in-especially since the person bringing it has already written the piece.



  • Hey folks, friendly reminder that if you would like to participate, you have until the end of tomorrow to tell me your game.