The EZA Forum Hall of Greats (September 2022)



  • Response to @Capnbobamous question about Forza Horizon 5’s track creator.

    I’m a player who isn’t interested in mods and other forms of user-generated content (even in games like Dreams I only play official campaign), so I haven’t personally experienced this side of Forza Horizon 5. But according to my research, the editor is very robust and gives you an opportunity to place a lot of various objects and devices in the environment, then race through your creation to set a route and then modify the logic of the event by adding rules like “when player hits destructible object of this type, finish the event” (and rules can be more complicated than that). This enables community to create events unlike anything in the game, and Forza Horizon 5 have lists like “Best of the Month” that will help you to find the most interesting creations.



  • Response to @Capnbobamous regarding What Remains of Edith Finch:

    I believe the stories, and the way Edith Finch tells those stories, are what leave a lasting impression in gamer's minds. Every time I look back on Edith Finch, it fills me with pleasure and a tinge of sorrow, because it understands how to be varied and shocking in a way I don't see in other games. The subject matter is dreary, but the sense of hope, and the numerous ways it manages to make you feel engaged emotionally through its gameplay is remarkable. I am reminded of how certain gameplay sections spirit you away, enabling you to feel connected with these stories, but the abundance of ways Edith Finch connects you to them are profound. This is what really sticks with me, because I remember how Edith Finch uses controls to make me more invested, I remember the sense of glee and whimsy I felt in certain stories despite the underlying tragedies. I think most impactfully, Edith Finch made me care about what it means to enjoy living, as well as the beauty of imagination and ambition. Just because the Finch family members are gone, doesn't mean the memories of who they were have vanished-and Edith Finch brings this stunning level of realization to heart-and breathes fervent life into it.



  • Second question for @Capnbobamous about Outer Wilds.

    Many games are less impactful when you play them second time, but with Outer Wilds I’m not sure that second playthrough is even possible. Which is a real shame, because it means that you can’t show the game you’ve just finished and loved to someone else. The only thing you can do really is recommend the game without telling anything about it, which isn’t very convincing. This also means that you can’t share this game with someone who doesn't play video games but likes watching you playing them. And inability to share your passion with others can be very frustrating.

    Do you consider the one-and-forever-done nature of this game as a detriment?



  • I've just spend more than two hours on examining presentations, questions and answers to rank entries and provide my reasoning (don’t worry, I will consider future Q&As and update my ranking accordingly). I didn’t know what my ranking would be before I’ve started this, but after I’ve wrote a reasoning for each nominee, their order became mostly obvious. Maybe you’ll find this approach helpful if you’re struggling with picking your top 3.



  • The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay

    Answer # 7 re: is the game scary?
    @Capnbobamous

    Question for @DIPSET

    For years I could have swore that I played this game. Don't remember a whole lot about it, but I have fond memories and recall having a good time with it. I've even had conversations with people about how I recall liking it. However, after watching your presentation I now know that I have never played this game before in my life haha. Don't know what game I've been thinking of all these years, but apparently my life is a lie.

    Anyway, after watching your presentation one of the things I was struck by was the atmosphere. Just based on what you showed, I am getting definite horror vibes, so is the game scary? What is the game's overall tone?

    Short answer, no it's not particularly scary. It's more along the lines of a thriller than a horror. Long answer — this game is based upon the film Pitch Black (2000), NOT, The Chronicles of Riddick (2003) so the tone is closer to the original film than anything else.

    The original film was kinda like Predator—a mix of action, suspense, horror. And Butcher Bay is sort of like that. There are parts where you are walking through dark tunnels with low ammo and a flashlight against swarms of alien creatures. There are also times when you're sneaking in the shadows a bit nervous to get caught. But nowhere does the game go into outright horror territory.

    It keeps the tension but there aren't jump scares or pursuer enemies. It does have elements of survival horror with low ammo and exploration rewarding the player with better tools for survival. But again, it's never meant to make you poop your pants. More like a Hollywood thrill ride in gaming.



  • Answering @Capnbobamous Regarding Side Quests

    I do agree that they can be varied in ways of actually helping the spirits, because while some are getting a specific item, you’re still fighting enemies in a guarantee of that item being dropped. Some I do recall do have some puzzle elements though in regards to actually reaching them. Not a lot of them, but at least they vary here or there.

    They do at least have some sort of lesson to Atreus. In one example for this, you need to find bones of Gullveig, to possibly see Faye, his mother, again. Atreus shows so much hope and belief in Gullveig’s magic that he can see his mother again. When they find all the bones, Gullveig attacks Kratos and Atreus and says you can see the mother in death. This does have Atreus at least learn to not trust spirits just based on what they say. So at least there is some life lesson involved!

    Regarding other side stuff, I did love all of the Dwarf side quests as they gave valuable resources and helped us have more grand moments with Brok and Sindri in that regard! It also feels more natural when in the main story, they reunite and come together and forgive each others' faults to make better products.



  • Sorry for not asking more questions. I'm too unfamiliar with most of the games, and for one of them, the question I had was asked by another. The presentations themselves also explained some things I'd been wondering about.



  • Second response to@ffff0

    I get what you mean, and you're right it's
    a difficult game to share with others, however I don't believe it's a detriment to the quality. In all likelihood, fewer people will play this game for the reasons you listed, and that's a shame, however that doesn't take away from the experience that those who do play it have. I wish I could share this game with more people, I really do, however as I said to Brannox, the reason I avoid revealing aspects of the game's plot is because I think it's so good that I want others to experience it blindly. It's a difficult game to recommend because I can say so little about it, however the reason I say little is because of those moments of awe that the game gave me. I remember my jaw dropping multiple times, pumping my fist into the air after I solved a major puzzle, feeling melancholy after a piece of the plot is revealed. All of those moments -- those emotions -- are worth keeping quiet about so that they have the same opportunity to affect you.

    So to answer your question, no I don't believe it's a detriment to the game. It's a difficult game to share, however those who play it are in for a remarkable experience.

    And also I played the game for a second time recently, and while it's naturally not as awe-inspiring as the first playthrough, plenty of things still affected me. I could still see the wonder of what was occurring even though it was not my first time seeing it.



  • Sorry for the delay folks, working all day so I'll open it up for your votes before the end of the night (I still have to update the aggregation post as well as make my picks.)



  • Alright everybody, sorry for the wait but cross-examination is now closed and it is time to DM me your votes. As a reminder, here are the rules you need to follow:

    1. Only those who brought a game can vote.
    2. You must choose your top 3 picks, with your first place game getting three points, second place getting two, and third place getting one.
    3. You may not vote for your own game.

    I encourage you to go back and look through everything before you decide, and I have updated the aggregation in the original post so that it contains every question and answer. For the sake of transparency, I have also already voted to make sure I'm not influenced by your votes. I will reveal the winners after I have received all of the votes.

    Thank you all for participating, I'll see you when I have your winners!



  • I think we tend to bring pretty great games. No real head scratchers here or even the prior HoG ceremonies. All bangers.

    Good luck!



  • Echoing @DIPSET's sentiments, you have all brought forward amazing games and presentations. I think all of them belong in the Hall of Greats, but as is the case we can only vote for three of them and only two will enter. Thanks for all your hard work!



  • @dipset said in The EZA Forum Hall of Greats (September 2022):

    I think we tend to bring pretty great games. No real head scratchers here or even the prior HoG ceremonies. All bangers.

    Not for long. Next time I'm bringing a game you'll likely will not even consider voting for.



  • @ffff0 said in The EZA Forum Hall of Greats (September 2022):

    Not for long. Next time I'm bringing a game you'll likely will not even consider voting for.

    You're bringing Knack to the next Hall of Greats!

    0_1664410599236_knack.gif



  • Okay everybody, I have received all of the votes and will now reveal which two games will enter the Hall of Greats. Before I do so, I would like to say that we once again have no banned games. This is our fourth time doing this and to have never had a banned game just speaks to the quality of the presentations you have all made.

    Without further ado, here are the games going from least to most points:


    0_1664512556058_StarFox.png
    #8: Star Fox 64 -- 3 points

    Submitted by @Oscillator
    Presentation


    0_1664512816158_Riddick.png

    #6: The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay -- 4 points

    Submitted by @DIPSET
    Presentation


    0_1664513008004_XCOM.png

    #6: XCOM: Enemy Unknown -- 4 points

    Submitted by @Shoulderguy
    Presentation


    0_1664513135494_GodOfWar.png

    #4: God of War (2018) -- 6 points

    Submitted by @bruno_saurus
    Presentation


    0_1664513276639_EdithFinch.png

    #4: What Remains of Edith Finch -- 6 points

    Submitted by @JDINCINERATOR
    Presentation


    0_1664513386595_Forza.png

    #3: Forza Horizon 5 -- 7 points

    Submitted by @ffff0
    Presentation


    And that means there are only two games left, both of which tied for first place. They are:

    0_1664513500513_OuterWilds.png

    #1: Outer Wilds -- 9 points

    Submitted by @Capnbobamous
    Presentation


    0_1664513586624_DOOM2.png

    #1: DOOM II -- 9 points

    Submitted by @Brannox
    Presentation


    And there we have it! Our fourth Hall of Greats is officially over. I just want to thank you all again for participating. It's officially been a year since we started this thing, and this HoG ceremony has had the most participants we've ever had. I'm super happy to see that it's still going strong, and if anything seems to be growing stronger. I had a great time, I hope you did as well. I feel as though everything went smoothly, but if you disagree I would love to know why.

    The next HoG is officially slated for January, however one member has asked me if it's possible to do it every three months rather than every four. I would be fine either way, so ultimately I pose the question to all of you. Would you rather switch this to four times a year, meaning the next HoG would be in December, or are you more comfortable with the way it is now?



  • Ouch, last place. I had a suspicion Star Fox 64 was going to be a tough sell, knowing that neither it, nor the genre it's in have a huge following. The tough competition really overwhelmed it.

    Great winners, though - they were my picks (Doom ahead of Wilds), plus a point to XCOM. :)

    I loved how passionate the presentations were this time, @Brannox 's especially solidifying my top pick.

    On the timing for the next one; we might be too busy during the Christmas season, so it might be better to wait until January, but every 3 months from then would be great. I already thought that was the case, as the original EZA HoG is quarterly (generally). Never bothered counting. :P



  • Considering lineup, I expected several games to be banned including my nominee, so I take third place with 7 points as a victory.

    As for the interval, I prefer once every 4 months because both preparation and participation takes a decent amount of time and if this happen more often, it may start feeling like a job, which is something I would like to avoid.



  • Here’s my ranking and reasoning. Sorry if I was harsh or misunderstanding of you.

    1. XCOM: Enemy Unknown. @Shoulderguy successfully showed not just best qualities of this game, but its impact on the industry. Each of those aspects makes a game Great, and here we have both.
    2. DOOM II. This is a very old game and I lean towards modern creations who learned the lessons of predecessors and did it better. However, @Brannox brought so much passion in presentation and was so unapologetically convinced that what’s a flaw for one is a highlight for another, that I had to throw away my “too old to be worthy” sentiment and simply consider the arguments. And the arguments were great.
    3. Outer Wilds. @Capnbobamous managed to talk about strong aspects of this game while dancing around spoilers, which isn’t an easy feat. It hurts the power of the arguments, but it also shows how special and important the game is for the presenter. I do consider the problem of sharing this game with others and obtuseness of some puzzles a detriment, but the opposite opinion was stated and well supported, so I had to dismiss mine.
    4. What Remains of Edith Finch. @JDINCINERATOR did a great job highlighting uniqueness of this game and showed that like any true art it can move people and leave lasting impression. However, there was an argument that this game puts gameplay above storytelling to fight the stigma against “walking simulators”. Personally, I don’t consider “walking simulators”, visual novels, etc. not worthy to be called games, so this fight for recognition is a minus for me. A true Great doesn’t need to convince skeptics, it is Great regardless of their opinions.
    5. God of War (2018). @bruno_saurus did a good job highlighting game’s combat and defended it well against relatively serious charges during cross-examination. I famously find this game forgettable, but I was successfully reminded about its good aspects. However, I didn’t feel that it is a Great.
    6. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay. While I enjoyed @DIPSET ‘s story of obtaining this game, I feel like it took too much time of 5-minute presentation. I would prefer to learn more about the game and what makes it special. Cross-examination did help to fill that gap, but this was a catch-up against strong contenders, and since others didn’t rest on their laurels, I ended up feeling less strongly about this game.
    7. Star Fox 64. I respect @Oscillator passion and it’s obvious how personally impactful this game was. However, both presentation and cross-examination didn’t manage to suppress an impression that this game is a product of its time. And, as I said earlier, I lean towards modern creations who learned the lessons of predecessors and did it better.


  • Wow. I'm both humbled and honored to receive enough votes to have a second nominee in the hall. I want to thank @Oscillator and @ffff0 for their kind words and everyone else who both gave, and considered giving, DOOM II a vote.

    Regarding the posed question of timing, I always defer to "the sooner the better," (and this applies to our GOTY threads as well), however, I do concur that more time between makes it more special and easier on presenters to prepare nominees/presentations and enough time to marshal potential counter-arguments.

    Pertaining to my voting, I went as follows:

    3 points: God of War - This is one of my absolute favorite games and I'm fresh off a third playthrough recently (and a whole series replay for that matter) to prep for Ragnarok, so going through this ceremony seeing all questions posed (and answers to) gave me a better clarity of understanding and measuring if it should be nominated. And personally, one day I hope it will.

    2 points: Forza Horizon 5 - The thing about Forza, and more specifically the Horizon subseries, that's so appealing is it goes out of its way to try and be as welcoming and accommodating to all, regarding of interest in cars, racing, etc. As I heard it put once, this isn't a racing game; it's a driving game. It helps to gorgeous to look at, and I felt @ffff0 did an excellent job demonstrating this in both presentation and cross-examination

    1 point: What Remains of Edith Finch - I agonized over this last vote between this and Chronicles of Riddick, because both presentations had different aspects that appealed to me greatly. However, ultimately, after thinking about what factor/aspect I care for most and judging the presentations and cross-examinations, I felt WRoEF's of being less of a commitment and easier to obtain and try put it over the edge. So in this case, brevity won the day.

    To close on the remaining games, I found it immensely funny (and I said as such in the appropriate thread) The Outer Wilds was a nominee in the Allies' Hall (and now also enshrined as well), so I found myself in the unique position of having supplemental material provided to consider. However, through Isla's presentation, I realized how similar it was to @Capnbobamous' and it made me feel like there's only one way to talk about the game to those who haven't played it, and a completely different way to those who have.

    XCOM is a hard sell for me, as I've only dipped my toe in the Tactics genre with Gears Tactics being my only experience (and it's VERY clear its XCOM influences). So I tried to cross-examine from a top level perspective with that gameplay in mind. In light of this (and the stiff competition), it was difficult for me to see it's "greatness," but very easy for me to see the love and care for it @Shoulderguy has.

    Lastly, on a surface level, Star Fox 64 looks fun, and @Oscillator did an excellent job showing as such (particularly demonstrating the optional/divergent paths). However, I think it's hard for me to be convinced to play because whether be the genre, or as a small part in other types of games, being on rails has never felt good to me, so it had a bit of a steeper hill to climb.

    As I said, I thank you all, especially for @Capnbobamous for running the Hall. I'm looking forward to the next one!



  • Again, I can't express enough how amazing every presentation has been. I've loved reading them all but as for my rankings and reasonings:

    1. FORZA Horizon 5- @ffff0 brought a racing game to the Hall of Greats and an excellent one at that. Not only this, he did a fantastic job of explaining why FORZA 5 is the best racing game (in his opinion), and he really hit a seismic homerun with me.
    2. Star Fox 64- @Oscillator showed his utter passion for Star Fox 64 and it's really cool to see a more personal story in the Hall of Greats. His writing really captivates me too. I think Star Fox 64 itself is a classic and deserves recognition
    3. Outer Wilds- @Capnbobamous made me spellbound by his presentation. A slick video and commentary about a game that was something of a dark horse in this race. Hats off to you sir!
    4. DOOM II- @Brannox legitimately made me play DOOM afterwards. The way he managed to make DOOM 2 a game with secrets and layers almost convinced me to tack on a point or two. The top 4 was really hard for me to pick, especially 2, 3 and 4.
    5. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay- Commendations to @DIPSET for bringing a banger of a surprise to the Hall of Greats. I struggle to remember it, that's likely the reason I didn't put it higher on the list.
    6. X-COM: Enemy Unknown- @Shoulderguy loaded his presentation with passion and demonstrated why Enemy Unknown garnered critical acclaim. I just can't get into the RTS genre and when I played Enemy Unknown I still can't unjam myself from this mindset.
    7. God of War- I really liked the details and depth in @bruno_saurus presentation, yet much like @ffff0, I don't see God of War as one of the best ever, even though many gamers out there put it in high regard.