The EZA Forum Hall of Greats (September 2022)

  • I've just spend more than two hours on examining presentations, questions and answers to rank entries and provide my reasoning (don’t worry, I will consider future Q&As and update my ranking accordingly). I didn’t know what my ranking would be before I’ve started this, but after I’ve wrote a reasoning for each nominee, their order became mostly obvious. Maybe you’ll find this approach helpful if you’re struggling with picking your top 3.

  • The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay

    Answer # 7 re: is the game scary?

    Question for @DIPSET

    For years I could have swore that I played this game. Don't remember a whole lot about it, but I have fond memories and recall having a good time with it. I've even had conversations with people about how I recall liking it. However, after watching your presentation I now know that I have never played this game before in my life haha. Don't know what game I've been thinking of all these years, but apparently my life is a lie.

    Anyway, after watching your presentation one of the things I was struck by was the atmosphere. Just based on what you showed, I am getting definite horror vibes, so is the game scary? What is the game's overall tone?

    Short answer, no it's not particularly scary. It's more along the lines of a thriller than a horror. Long answer — this game is based upon the film Pitch Black (2000), NOT, The Chronicles of Riddick (2003) so the tone is closer to the original film than anything else.

    The original film was kinda like Predator—a mix of action, suspense, horror. And Butcher Bay is sort of like that. There are parts where you are walking through dark tunnels with low ammo and a flashlight against swarms of alien creatures. There are also times when you're sneaking in the shadows a bit nervous to get caught. But nowhere does the game go into outright horror territory.

    It keeps the tension but there aren't jump scares or pursuer enemies. It does have elements of survival horror with low ammo and exploration rewarding the player with better tools for survival. But again, it's never meant to make you poop your pants. More like a Hollywood thrill ride in gaming.

  • Answering @Capnbobamous Regarding Side Quests

    I do agree that they can be varied in ways of actually helping the spirits, because while some are getting a specific item, you’re still fighting enemies in a guarantee of that item being dropped. Some I do recall do have some puzzle elements though in regards to actually reaching them. Not a lot of them, but at least they vary here or there.

    They do at least have some sort of lesson to Atreus. In one example for this, you need to find bones of Gullveig, to possibly see Faye, his mother, again. Atreus shows so much hope and belief in Gullveig’s magic that he can see his mother again. When they find all the bones, Gullveig attacks Kratos and Atreus and says you can see the mother in death. This does have Atreus at least learn to not trust spirits just based on what they say. So at least there is some life lesson involved!

    Regarding other side stuff, I did love all of the Dwarf side quests as they gave valuable resources and helped us have more grand moments with Brok and Sindri in that regard! It also feels more natural when in the main story, they reunite and come together and forgive each others' faults to make better products.

  • Sorry for not asking more questions. I'm too unfamiliar with most of the games, and for one of them, the question I had was asked by another. The presentations themselves also explained some things I'd been wondering about.

  • Second response to@ffff0

    I get what you mean, and you're right it's
    a difficult game to share with others, however I don't believe it's a detriment to the quality. In all likelihood, fewer people will play this game for the reasons you listed, and that's a shame, however that doesn't take away from the experience that those who do play it have. I wish I could share this game with more people, I really do, however as I said to Brannox, the reason I avoid revealing aspects of the game's plot is because I think it's so good that I want others to experience it blindly. It's a difficult game to recommend because I can say so little about it, however the reason I say little is because of those moments of awe that the game gave me. I remember my jaw dropping multiple times, pumping my fist into the air after I solved a major puzzle, feeling melancholy after a piece of the plot is revealed. All of those moments -- those emotions -- are worth keeping quiet about so that they have the same opportunity to affect you.

    So to answer your question, no I don't believe it's a detriment to the game. It's a difficult game to share, however those who play it are in for a remarkable experience.

    And also I played the game for a second time recently, and while it's naturally not as awe-inspiring as the first playthrough, plenty of things still affected me. I could still see the wonder of what was occurring even though it was not my first time seeing it.

  • Sorry for the delay folks, working all day so I'll open it up for your votes before the end of the night (I still have to update the aggregation post as well as make my picks.)

  • Alright everybody, sorry for the wait but cross-examination is now closed and it is time to DM me your votes. As a reminder, here are the rules you need to follow:

    1. Only those who brought a game can vote.
    2. You must choose your top 3 picks, with your first place game getting three points, second place getting two, and third place getting one.
    3. You may not vote for your own game.

    I encourage you to go back and look through everything before you decide, and I have updated the aggregation in the original post so that it contains every question and answer. For the sake of transparency, I have also already voted to make sure I'm not influenced by your votes. I will reveal the winners after I have received all of the votes.

    Thank you all for participating, I'll see you when I have your winners!

  • I think we tend to bring pretty great games. No real head scratchers here or even the prior HoG ceremonies. All bangers.

    Good luck!

  • Echoing @DIPSET's sentiments, you have all brought forward amazing games and presentations. I think all of them belong in the Hall of Greats, but as is the case we can only vote for three of them and only two will enter. Thanks for all your hard work!

  • @dipset said in The EZA Forum Hall of Greats (September 2022):

    I think we tend to bring pretty great games. No real head scratchers here or even the prior HoG ceremonies. All bangers.

    Not for long. Next time I'm bringing a game you'll likely will not even consider voting for.

  • @ffff0 said in The EZA Forum Hall of Greats (September 2022):

    Not for long. Next time I'm bringing a game you'll likely will not even consider voting for.

    You're bringing Knack to the next Hall of Greats!


  • Okay everybody, I have received all of the votes and will now reveal which two games will enter the Hall of Greats. Before I do so, I would like to say that we once again have no banned games. This is our fourth time doing this and to have never had a banned game just speaks to the quality of the presentations you have all made.

    Without further ado, here are the games going from least to most points:

    #8: Star Fox 64 -- 3 points

    Submitted by @Oscillator


    #6: The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay -- 4 points

    Submitted by @DIPSET


    #6: XCOM: Enemy Unknown -- 4 points

    Submitted by @Shoulderguy


    #4: God of War (2018) -- 6 points

    Submitted by @bruno_saurus


    #4: What Remains of Edith Finch -- 6 points

    Submitted by @JDINCINERATOR


    #3: Forza Horizon 5 -- 7 points

    Submitted by @ffff0

    And that means there are only two games left, both of which tied for first place. They are:


    #1: Outer Wilds -- 9 points

    Submitted by @Capnbobamous


    #1: DOOM II -- 9 points

    Submitted by @Brannox

    And there we have it! Our fourth Hall of Greats is officially over. I just want to thank you all again for participating. It's officially been a year since we started this thing, and this HoG ceremony has had the most participants we've ever had. I'm super happy to see that it's still going strong, and if anything seems to be growing stronger. I had a great time, I hope you did as well. I feel as though everything went smoothly, but if you disagree I would love to know why.

    The next HoG is officially slated for January, however one member has asked me if it's possible to do it every three months rather than every four. I would be fine either way, so ultimately I pose the question to all of you. Would you rather switch this to four times a year, meaning the next HoG would be in December, or are you more comfortable with the way it is now?

  • Ouch, last place. I had a suspicion Star Fox 64 was going to be a tough sell, knowing that neither it, nor the genre it's in have a huge following. The tough competition really overwhelmed it.

    Great winners, though - they were my picks (Doom ahead of Wilds), plus a point to XCOM. :)

    I loved how passionate the presentations were this time, @Brannox 's especially solidifying my top pick.

    On the timing for the next one; we might be too busy during the Christmas season, so it might be better to wait until January, but every 3 months from then would be great. I already thought that was the case, as the original EZA HoG is quarterly (generally). Never bothered counting. :P

  • Considering lineup, I expected several games to be banned including my nominee, so I take third place with 7 points as a victory.

    As for the interval, I prefer once every 4 months because both preparation and participation takes a decent amount of time and if this happen more often, it may start feeling like a job, which is something I would like to avoid.

  • Here’s my ranking and reasoning. Sorry if I was harsh or misunderstanding of you.

    1. XCOM: Enemy Unknown. @Shoulderguy successfully showed not just best qualities of this game, but its impact on the industry. Each of those aspects makes a game Great, and here we have both.
    2. DOOM II. This is a very old game and I lean towards modern creations who learned the lessons of predecessors and did it better. However, @Brannox brought so much passion in presentation and was so unapologetically convinced that what’s a flaw for one is a highlight for another, that I had to throw away my “too old to be worthy” sentiment and simply consider the arguments. And the arguments were great.
    3. Outer Wilds. @Capnbobamous managed to talk about strong aspects of this game while dancing around spoilers, which isn’t an easy feat. It hurts the power of the arguments, but it also shows how special and important the game is for the presenter. I do consider the problem of sharing this game with others and obtuseness of some puzzles a detriment, but the opposite opinion was stated and well supported, so I had to dismiss mine.
    4. What Remains of Edith Finch. @JDINCINERATOR did a great job highlighting uniqueness of this game and showed that like any true art it can move people and leave lasting impression. However, there was an argument that this game puts gameplay above storytelling to fight the stigma against “walking simulators”. Personally, I don’t consider “walking simulators”, visual novels, etc. not worthy to be called games, so this fight for recognition is a minus for me. A true Great doesn’t need to convince skeptics, it is Great regardless of their opinions.
    5. God of War (2018). @bruno_saurus did a good job highlighting game’s combat and defended it well against relatively serious charges during cross-examination. I famously find this game forgettable, but I was successfully reminded about its good aspects. However, I didn’t feel that it is a Great.
    6. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay. While I enjoyed @DIPSET ‘s story of obtaining this game, I feel like it took too much time of 5-minute presentation. I would prefer to learn more about the game and what makes it special. Cross-examination did help to fill that gap, but this was a catch-up against strong contenders, and since others didn’t rest on their laurels, I ended up feeling less strongly about this game.
    7. Star Fox 64. I respect @Oscillator passion and it’s obvious how personally impactful this game was. However, both presentation and cross-examination didn’t manage to suppress an impression that this game is a product of its time. And, as I said earlier, I lean towards modern creations who learned the lessons of predecessors and did it better.

  • Wow. I'm both humbled and honored to receive enough votes to have a second nominee in the hall. I want to thank @Oscillator and @ffff0 for their kind words and everyone else who both gave, and considered giving, DOOM II a vote.

    Regarding the posed question of timing, I always defer to "the sooner the better," (and this applies to our GOTY threads as well), however, I do concur that more time between makes it more special and easier on presenters to prepare nominees/presentations and enough time to marshal potential counter-arguments.

    Pertaining to my voting, I went as follows:

    3 points: God of War - This is one of my absolute favorite games and I'm fresh off a third playthrough recently (and a whole series replay for that matter) to prep for Ragnarok, so going through this ceremony seeing all questions posed (and answers to) gave me a better clarity of understanding and measuring if it should be nominated. And personally, one day I hope it will.

    2 points: Forza Horizon 5 - The thing about Forza, and more specifically the Horizon subseries, that's so appealing is it goes out of its way to try and be as welcoming and accommodating to all, regarding of interest in cars, racing, etc. As I heard it put once, this isn't a racing game; it's a driving game. It helps to gorgeous to look at, and I felt @ffff0 did an excellent job demonstrating this in both presentation and cross-examination

    1 point: What Remains of Edith Finch - I agonized over this last vote between this and Chronicles of Riddick, because both presentations had different aspects that appealed to me greatly. However, ultimately, after thinking about what factor/aspect I care for most and judging the presentations and cross-examinations, I felt WRoEF's of being less of a commitment and easier to obtain and try put it over the edge. So in this case, brevity won the day.

    To close on the remaining games, I found it immensely funny (and I said as such in the appropriate thread) The Outer Wilds was a nominee in the Allies' Hall (and now also enshrined as well), so I found myself in the unique position of having supplemental material provided to consider. However, through Isla's presentation, I realized how similar it was to @Capnbobamous' and it made me feel like there's only one way to talk about the game to those who haven't played it, and a completely different way to those who have.

    XCOM is a hard sell for me, as I've only dipped my toe in the Tactics genre with Gears Tactics being my only experience (and it's VERY clear its XCOM influences). So I tried to cross-examine from a top level perspective with that gameplay in mind. In light of this (and the stiff competition), it was difficult for me to see it's "greatness," but very easy for me to see the love and care for it @Shoulderguy has.

    Lastly, on a surface level, Star Fox 64 looks fun, and @Oscillator did an excellent job showing as such (particularly demonstrating the optional/divergent paths). However, I think it's hard for me to be convinced to play because whether be the genre, or as a small part in other types of games, being on rails has never felt good to me, so it had a bit of a steeper hill to climb.

    As I said, I thank you all, especially for @Capnbobamous for running the Hall. I'm looking forward to the next one!

  • Again, I can't express enough how amazing every presentation has been. I've loved reading them all but as for my rankings and reasonings:

    1. FORZA Horizon 5- @ffff0 brought a racing game to the Hall of Greats and an excellent one at that. Not only this, he did a fantastic job of explaining why FORZA 5 is the best racing game (in his opinion), and he really hit a seismic homerun with me.
    2. Star Fox 64- @Oscillator showed his utter passion for Star Fox 64 and it's really cool to see a more personal story in the Hall of Greats. His writing really captivates me too. I think Star Fox 64 itself is a classic and deserves recognition
    3. Outer Wilds- @Capnbobamous made me spellbound by his presentation. A slick video and commentary about a game that was something of a dark horse in this race. Hats off to you sir!
    4. DOOM II- @Brannox legitimately made me play DOOM afterwards. The way he managed to make DOOM 2 a game with secrets and layers almost convinced me to tack on a point or two. The top 4 was really hard for me to pick, especially 2, 3 and 4.
    5. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay- Commendations to @DIPSET for bringing a banger of a surprise to the Hall of Greats. I struggle to remember it, that's likely the reason I didn't put it higher on the list.
    6. X-COM: Enemy Unknown- @Shoulderguy loaded his presentation with passion and demonstrated why Enemy Unknown garnered critical acclaim. I just can't get into the RTS genre and when I played Enemy Unknown I still can't unjam myself from this mindset.
    7. God of War- I really liked the details and depth in @bruno_saurus presentation, yet much like @ffff0, I don't see God of War as one of the best ever, even though many gamers out there put it in high regard.

  • Ah tough luck with Riddick but I truly feel like it's one of the best games I've ever played and there really isn't any other game quite like it. If you can find a copy, get it!

    I went into the HoG not having played a good handful of these games, but a few stood out to me as I played through them before cross-examination.


    I know DOOM isn't some little secret in the gaming industry but I don't know one single person I grew up with who was even into PC gaming let alone DOOM. So the whole OG era of DOOM that released around the time when I was born was missed on me.

    And as a lifelong gamer, I feel like nobody really brought DOOM up as something I have to play. It's almost always spoken about as this thing from the past. So I was skeptical going in, expecting an archaic shooter.

    But holy shit! DOOM II is soooooooo fun. Once you get used to weird old school intricates like the a lack of y-axis, the flow of every level starts to feel so smooth and fun and quasi-addicting.

    Without a doubt, I had more fun in 1/3rd of DOOM II than I did throughout the entirety of DOOM 2016. Where I felt DOOM 2016 was way too repetitive (3+ levels destroying nests) with far too many QTE's and samey flow to everything, DOOM II felt like it was giving me a fresh idea every single level. And if you don't save scum, you retry levels with no ammo but it's so fun to just kill a few demons and take their gun, kill another, get the next gun. Lots of audio feedback to make everything feel fast and aggressive.

    What. A. Game.


    What Remains of Edith Finch

    I didn't really know what to expect with this one but I'm super glad I played it. What stood out immediately in my mind, and especially as the game went on, was Don't Nod's Tell Me Why. And I don't say this lightly, but having played Edith Finch now, I feel like Don't Nod shamelessly and borderline disgracefully ripped of details from Edith Finch's overall plot, art direction, and concept. Even small details like the offspring revisiting their family home, the shape, look, and layout of the home itself, and a quirky mother locking off doors to bedrooms within the house using quirky little traps is just so on the nose ripped off from Edith Finch. It's one thing to have a nod to a game that inspired you and it's another to be the bigger studio with the bigger budgets and have Microsoft publishing your game so you go and take the overall concept and stretch it out longer.

    And with all that said, I guess imitation is the kindest form of flattery. I get why they wanted to rip parts of Edith Finch off. The game is so novel in all regards. @JDINCINERATOR you did a fantastic job of explaining what no other writers seemed to explain and that is how fun the game is to play. I assumed it was a walking sim, but when I'm literally playing inside of a comic book bashing all of the objects in the house with a leg crutch, I have a hard time understand how people can even call it a walking sim.

    Unlike Tell Me Why or other "walking sims" Edith Finch was all killer and no filler. 2.5 hours to beat, one banger story after another, bing bang boom. No slowdown trying to find shit or solve mundane puzzles. Just go here and do something fun. Then go there and do something fun. Then it all wraps up while it still feels novel. I'm so glad I tried this one and I think it's worth of being "one of the greats" in it's respective genre. It's up there as one of the best along with Journey.

  • Good job guys!

    I would like to try to participate on the next one, this seems like fun. I just have to find the time.

    Outer Wilds is truly one of my favourite games ever. Very happy to see it elected. Great video too.

    Might be time to finally play Doom 2.

    I hope to see Riddick, Xcom and Forza 5 here again.

  • I came in with low expectations for my nominee but scoring 4 points is pretty good for a strategy game when paired against some of the all-time greats.

    You all had awesome, passionate and informative presentations but we can only pick three.

    My votes:
    God of War 2018 (3 points)
    The Chronicles of Riddick Escape From Butcher Bay (2 points)
    What Remains of Edith Finch (1 point)

    Thanks everyone and thanks to @Capnbobamous for managing another successful Hall of Greats.