The EZA Forum Hall of Greats (September 2022)



  • @ffff0 said in The EZA Forum Hall of Greats (September 2022):

    Not for long. Next time I'm bringing a game you'll likely will not even consider voting for.

    You're bringing Knack to the next Hall of Greats!

    0_1664410599236_knack.gif



  • Okay everybody, I have received all of the votes and will now reveal which two games will enter the Hall of Greats. Before I do so, I would like to say that we once again have no banned games. This is our fourth time doing this and to have never had a banned game just speaks to the quality of the presentations you have all made.

    Without further ado, here are the games going from least to most points:


    0_1664512556058_StarFox.png
    #8: Star Fox 64 -- 3 points

    Submitted by @Oscillator
    Presentation


    0_1664512816158_Riddick.png

    #6: The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay -- 4 points

    Submitted by @DIPSET
    Presentation


    0_1664513008004_XCOM.png

    #6: XCOM: Enemy Unknown -- 4 points

    Submitted by @Shoulderguy
    Presentation


    0_1664513135494_GodOfWar.png

    #4: God of War (2018) -- 6 points

    Submitted by @bruno_saurus
    Presentation


    0_1664513276639_EdithFinch.png

    #4: What Remains of Edith Finch -- 6 points

    Submitted by @JDINCINERATOR
    Presentation


    0_1664513386595_Forza.png

    #3: Forza Horizon 5 -- 7 points

    Submitted by @ffff0
    Presentation


    And that means there are only two games left, both of which tied for first place. They are:

    0_1664513500513_OuterWilds.png

    #1: Outer Wilds -- 9 points

    Submitted by @Capnbobamous
    Presentation


    0_1664513586624_DOOM2.png

    #1: DOOM II -- 9 points

    Submitted by @Brannox
    Presentation


    And there we have it! Our fourth Hall of Greats is officially over. I just want to thank you all again for participating. It's officially been a year since we started this thing, and this HoG ceremony has had the most participants we've ever had. I'm super happy to see that it's still going strong, and if anything seems to be growing stronger. I had a great time, I hope you did as well. I feel as though everything went smoothly, but if you disagree I would love to know why.

    The next HoG is officially slated for January, however one member has asked me if it's possible to do it every three months rather than every four. I would be fine either way, so ultimately I pose the question to all of you. Would you rather switch this to four times a year, meaning the next HoG would be in December, or are you more comfortable with the way it is now?



  • Ouch, last place. I had a suspicion Star Fox 64 was going to be a tough sell, knowing that neither it, nor the genre it's in have a huge following. The tough competition really overwhelmed it.

    Great winners, though - they were my picks (Doom ahead of Wilds), plus a point to XCOM. :)

    I loved how passionate the presentations were this time, @Brannox 's especially solidifying my top pick.

    On the timing for the next one; we might be too busy during the Christmas season, so it might be better to wait until January, but every 3 months from then would be great. I already thought that was the case, as the original EZA HoG is quarterly (generally). Never bothered counting. :P



  • Considering lineup, I expected several games to be banned including my nominee, so I take third place with 7 points as a victory.

    As for the interval, I prefer once every 4 months because both preparation and participation takes a decent amount of time and if this happen more often, it may start feeling like a job, which is something I would like to avoid.



  • Here’s my ranking and reasoning. Sorry if I was harsh or misunderstanding of you.

    1. XCOM: Enemy Unknown. @Shoulderguy successfully showed not just best qualities of this game, but its impact on the industry. Each of those aspects makes a game Great, and here we have both.
    2. DOOM II. This is a very old game and I lean towards modern creations who learned the lessons of predecessors and did it better. However, @Brannox brought so much passion in presentation and was so unapologetically convinced that what’s a flaw for one is a highlight for another, that I had to throw away my “too old to be worthy” sentiment and simply consider the arguments. And the arguments were great.
    3. Outer Wilds. @Capnbobamous managed to talk about strong aspects of this game while dancing around spoilers, which isn’t an easy feat. It hurts the power of the arguments, but it also shows how special and important the game is for the presenter. I do consider the problem of sharing this game with others and obtuseness of some puzzles a detriment, but the opposite opinion was stated and well supported, so I had to dismiss mine.
    4. What Remains of Edith Finch. @JDINCINERATOR did a great job highlighting uniqueness of this game and showed that like any true art it can move people and leave lasting impression. However, there was an argument that this game puts gameplay above storytelling to fight the stigma against “walking simulators”. Personally, I don’t consider “walking simulators”, visual novels, etc. not worthy to be called games, so this fight for recognition is a minus for me. A true Great doesn’t need to convince skeptics, it is Great regardless of their opinions.
    5. God of War (2018). @bruno_saurus did a good job highlighting game’s combat and defended it well against relatively serious charges during cross-examination. I famously find this game forgettable, but I was successfully reminded about its good aspects. However, I didn’t feel that it is a Great.
    6. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay. While I enjoyed @DIPSET ‘s story of obtaining this game, I feel like it took too much time of 5-minute presentation. I would prefer to learn more about the game and what makes it special. Cross-examination did help to fill that gap, but this was a catch-up against strong contenders, and since others didn’t rest on their laurels, I ended up feeling less strongly about this game.
    7. Star Fox 64. I respect @Oscillator passion and it’s obvious how personally impactful this game was. However, both presentation and cross-examination didn’t manage to suppress an impression that this game is a product of its time. And, as I said earlier, I lean towards modern creations who learned the lessons of predecessors and did it better.


  • Wow. I'm both humbled and honored to receive enough votes to have a second nominee in the hall. I want to thank @Oscillator and @ffff0 for their kind words and everyone else who both gave, and considered giving, DOOM II a vote.

    Regarding the posed question of timing, I always defer to "the sooner the better," (and this applies to our GOTY threads as well), however, I do concur that more time between makes it more special and easier on presenters to prepare nominees/presentations and enough time to marshal potential counter-arguments.

    Pertaining to my voting, I went as follows:

    3 points: God of War - This is one of my absolute favorite games and I'm fresh off a third playthrough recently (and a whole series replay for that matter) to prep for Ragnarok, so going through this ceremony seeing all questions posed (and answers to) gave me a better clarity of understanding and measuring if it should be nominated. And personally, one day I hope it will.

    2 points: Forza Horizon 5 - The thing about Forza, and more specifically the Horizon subseries, that's so appealing is it goes out of its way to try and be as welcoming and accommodating to all, regarding of interest in cars, racing, etc. As I heard it put once, this isn't a racing game; it's a driving game. It helps to gorgeous to look at, and I felt @ffff0 did an excellent job demonstrating this in both presentation and cross-examination

    1 point: What Remains of Edith Finch - I agonized over this last vote between this and Chronicles of Riddick, because both presentations had different aspects that appealed to me greatly. However, ultimately, after thinking about what factor/aspect I care for most and judging the presentations and cross-examinations, I felt WRoEF's of being less of a commitment and easier to obtain and try put it over the edge. So in this case, brevity won the day.

    To close on the remaining games, I found it immensely funny (and I said as such in the appropriate thread) The Outer Wilds was a nominee in the Allies' Hall (and now also enshrined as well), so I found myself in the unique position of having supplemental material provided to consider. However, through Isla's presentation, I realized how similar it was to @Capnbobamous' and it made me feel like there's only one way to talk about the game to those who haven't played it, and a completely different way to those who have.

    XCOM is a hard sell for me, as I've only dipped my toe in the Tactics genre with Gears Tactics being my only experience (and it's VERY clear its XCOM influences). So I tried to cross-examine from a top level perspective with that gameplay in mind. In light of this (and the stiff competition), it was difficult for me to see it's "greatness," but very easy for me to see the love and care for it @Shoulderguy has.

    Lastly, on a surface level, Star Fox 64 looks fun, and @Oscillator did an excellent job showing as such (particularly demonstrating the optional/divergent paths). However, I think it's hard for me to be convinced to play because whether be the genre, or as a small part in other types of games, being on rails has never felt good to me, so it had a bit of a steeper hill to climb.

    As I said, I thank you all, especially for @Capnbobamous for running the Hall. I'm looking forward to the next one!



  • Again, I can't express enough how amazing every presentation has been. I've loved reading them all but as for my rankings and reasonings:

    1. FORZA Horizon 5- @ffff0 brought a racing game to the Hall of Greats and an excellent one at that. Not only this, he did a fantastic job of explaining why FORZA 5 is the best racing game (in his opinion), and he really hit a seismic homerun with me.
    2. Star Fox 64- @Oscillator showed his utter passion for Star Fox 64 and it's really cool to see a more personal story in the Hall of Greats. His writing really captivates me too. I think Star Fox 64 itself is a classic and deserves recognition
    3. Outer Wilds- @Capnbobamous made me spellbound by his presentation. A slick video and commentary about a game that was something of a dark horse in this race. Hats off to you sir!
    4. DOOM II- @Brannox legitimately made me play DOOM afterwards. The way he managed to make DOOM 2 a game with secrets and layers almost convinced me to tack on a point or two. The top 4 was really hard for me to pick, especially 2, 3 and 4.
    5. The Chronicles of Riddick: Escape From Butcher Bay- Commendations to @DIPSET for bringing a banger of a surprise to the Hall of Greats. I struggle to remember it, that's likely the reason I didn't put it higher on the list.
    6. X-COM: Enemy Unknown- @Shoulderguy loaded his presentation with passion and demonstrated why Enemy Unknown garnered critical acclaim. I just can't get into the RTS genre and when I played Enemy Unknown I still can't unjam myself from this mindset.
    7. God of War- I really liked the details and depth in @bruno_saurus presentation, yet much like @ffff0, I don't see God of War as one of the best ever, even though many gamers out there put it in high regard.


  • Ah tough luck with Riddick but I truly feel like it's one of the best games I've ever played and there really isn't any other game quite like it. If you can find a copy, get it!

    I went into the HoG not having played a good handful of these games, but a few stood out to me as I played through them before cross-examination.

    DOOM II

    I know DOOM isn't some little secret in the gaming industry but I don't know one single person I grew up with who was even into PC gaming let alone DOOM. So the whole OG era of DOOM that released around the time when I was born was missed on me.

    And as a lifelong gamer, I feel like nobody really brought DOOM up as something I have to play. It's almost always spoken about as this thing from the past. So I was skeptical going in, expecting an archaic shooter.

    But holy shit! DOOM II is soooooooo fun. Once you get used to weird old school intricates like the a lack of y-axis, the flow of every level starts to feel so smooth and fun and quasi-addicting.

    Without a doubt, I had more fun in 1/3rd of DOOM II than I did throughout the entirety of DOOM 2016. Where I felt DOOM 2016 was way too repetitive (3+ levels destroying nests) with far too many QTE's and samey flow to everything, DOOM II felt like it was giving me a fresh idea every single level. And if you don't save scum, you retry levels with no ammo but it's so fun to just kill a few demons and take their gun, kill another, get the next gun. Lots of audio feedback to make everything feel fast and aggressive.

    What. A. Game.

    --

    What Remains of Edith Finch

    I didn't really know what to expect with this one but I'm super glad I played it. What stood out immediately in my mind, and especially as the game went on, was Don't Nod's Tell Me Why. And I don't say this lightly, but having played Edith Finch now, I feel like Don't Nod shamelessly and borderline disgracefully ripped of details from Edith Finch's overall plot, art direction, and concept. Even small details like the offspring revisiting their family home, the shape, look, and layout of the home itself, and a quirky mother locking off doors to bedrooms within the house using quirky little traps is just so on the nose ripped off from Edith Finch. It's one thing to have a nod to a game that inspired you and it's another to be the bigger studio with the bigger budgets and have Microsoft publishing your game so you go and take the overall concept and stretch it out longer.

    And with all that said, I guess imitation is the kindest form of flattery. I get why they wanted to rip parts of Edith Finch off. The game is so novel in all regards. @JDINCINERATOR you did a fantastic job of explaining what no other writers seemed to explain and that is how fun the game is to play. I assumed it was a walking sim, but when I'm literally playing inside of a comic book bashing all of the objects in the house with a leg crutch, I have a hard time understand how people can even call it a walking sim.

    Unlike Tell Me Why or other "walking sims" Edith Finch was all killer and no filler. 2.5 hours to beat, one banger story after another, bing bang boom. No slowdown trying to find shit or solve mundane puzzles. Just go here and do something fun. Then go there and do something fun. Then it all wraps up while it still feels novel. I'm so glad I tried this one and I think it's worth of being "one of the greats" in it's respective genre. It's up there as one of the best along with Journey.



  • Good job guys!

    I would like to try to participate on the next one, this seems like fun. I just have to find the time.

    Outer Wilds is truly one of my favourite games ever. Very happy to see it elected. Great video too.

    Might be time to finally play Doom 2.

    I hope to see Riddick, Xcom and Forza 5 here again.



  • I came in with low expectations for my nominee but scoring 4 points is pretty good for a strategy game when paired against some of the all-time greats.

    You all had awesome, passionate and informative presentations but we can only pick three.

    My votes:
    God of War 2018 (3 points)
    The Chronicles of Riddick Escape From Butcher Bay (2 points)
    What Remains of Edith Finch (1 point)

    Thanks everyone and thanks to @Capnbobamous for managing another successful Hall of Greats.



  • Very honored to have my second game in the HoG. I was honestly pretty shocked that Outer Wilds got in, I figured it was a long-shot pick. This was especially because the first few lists I got either placed it very low or not at all, however as I got more lists it was progressively getting picked more and more until it seemed to sneak in at the end. I also wasn't super happy with my presentation, but I have a habit of disliking my work after making it, so maybe in a few months it'll grow on me.

    Anyway, here were my picks:

    1. What Remains of Edith Finch -- Edith Finch is one of my favorite games of all time. It's a game that I myself have pondered bringing to the HoG ever since the first one, so I was very excited to see JD bring it, and he did a wonderful job explaining what makes the game so special. The narrative is just so impactful, making me cry every time, and the reason it works is because you're an active participant within it. It's not a passive experience, it's an active one, and as such you are able to get so much more engrossed in its world. Just a beautiful game. I was sad to see it not get in (honestly I would have rathered this one made it than my own game lol), but who knows, maybe I'll take a crack at it one day, though JD's presentation was so good I doubt I could do any better.

    2. Escape From Butcher Bay -- I love a weird pick. Dipset had so much more on his plate than many of us because he had to explain the merits of a game that I'm willing to bet none of us have ever played before. I think he did a very good job. The game looks very exciting, I'm fascinated by its world and tone, reminding me a lot of the immersive sims of the same era. It truly seems to be a hidden gem, and the fact that Dipset was able to explain that so well is why it gets my two points. I may never play this game, but after this I certainly want to.

    3. Star Fox 64 -- I felt the passion. I haven't played this game, and I doubt I ever will to be honest, but I felt Oscillator's passion radiate from the screen as he described it, and that's a very special quality to have. Maybe the game doesn't hold up too well today, I honestly don't know, but I know for a fact that it worked wonders for Oscillator back then, and that's enough for me.



  • I can't understate how thankful I am to @Capnbobamous for managing and organizing the Hall of Greats. I can't wait to chomp at the bit when they come around. This edition has been stacked with brilliant games that are all worthy. Thank you everybody!



  • Yes! Thanks to @Capnbobamous for continuing to keep doing this each few months! Very tough choices this time as all the games were grand! Will likely be looking for that Chronicles of Riddick remaster! All the others I actually have and some I even want to replay soon, like What Remains of Edith Finch! Thankful for the votes I got and am looking forward to the next one! Thanks people!



  • I anyone has ability and interest to share this on Community Showcase, the submission post is up.



  • I don't see the post so I think I might've left that tier at some point.

    In terms of how frequently to do this, January seems fine. That's 4 months away. I never really know what games to bring to our Hall of Greats tbh but I do like shining a light on some of my favourite games that I feel don't get enough credit among the more "serious" gamer crowd. Respect to Bruno for brining Madden last time because PS2 era Madden was phenomenal and I don't think annualized games will ever get the long term credit they deserve outside of outliers like NHL 93/94. But I'd like to go back and play some of my favourite sports / racing games and really try to formulate a case for them.



  • @Capnbobamous I know you typically reveal it at the top of the next HoG, but would you be interested in doing the updated showcase image of the winners now? I'd like to share it on Kyle's Twitch stream with my next resub in about 10 days.



  • Sent it in for The Community Showcase!



  • @oscillator Sure I'll make it as soon as I can



  • Here you go @Oscillator

    0_1665119950218_HoG4.png

    I have to compress it to get it to fit on the forum, so if you would like a larger version DM me and we can figure out how to get it to you.



  • @capnbobamous said in The EZA Forum Hall of Greats (September 2022):

    I have to compress it to get it to fit on the forum, so if you would like a larger version DM me and we can figure out how to get it to you.

    It's great, actually slightly better quality than the last one. :)

    Thanks for expediting!!